Barcelona, Bayern and Juve are no worse than Inter, Lyon or Real

My goodness, what a day. You know those days that just fly past – where you don’t get a moment to think before it’s all over. I had one of those and it was great. Apart from the Arsenal game of course.

To be completely honest I didn’t get to watch the 2-0 defeat to Porto. But the word from the manager, the stand-in captain and those of you who commented on yesterday’s blog was that we were pretty ordinary. A draw was all that was required to grab top spot in the group but it proved too difficult task as our significantly under-strength side succumbed to a first-half header from Bruno Alves and a second-half thumper from Lisandro Lopez.

I can’t really be bothered going into the game because at the end of the day the result nor the performance really doesn’t matter too much. Finishing second in the group means we’ll now play one of Roma, Panathinaikos, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Juventus. Had we finished top we could have faces Inter Milan, Sporting Lisbon, Atletico Madrid, Villareal, Lyon or Real Madrid and there’s really no difference in quality there in my opinion.

What is important is getting the win over Middlesbrough on Saturday and I think that by resting the first-teamers Wenger has given his team the best opportunity possible to do that. Players like Emmanuel Adebayor, Robin van Persie and Cesc Fabregas should be well rested and as a result should be expected to put in energetic and effective performances in on Saturday. And if they do so we’ll be well on our way to getting another valuable three points.

Aside from the Porto match that there’s really not a lot going on today so I’ll leave it there. Have a lovely Thursday and I’ll speak to you tomorrow.

Cheers.

Have your say on Arsenal’s loss to Porto by leaving a comment.

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97 Responses to “Barcelona, Bayern and Juve are no worse than Inter, Lyon or Real”

  1. MoMONEY
    December 11, 2008 at 5:19 pm #

    I am hoping for Roma to be honest… That would be a good matchup for us. I feel we can compete with all of these teams (maybe not Barca but who knows) though. Panathanaikos is dangerous in the air and will play their hearts out which seems dangerous. Juve have been starved of the Champions League and Bayern were not in it last year so they will have thei backs against the wall… I pray for a Roma matchup- it will be interesting to see what happens….

  2. Ronaldo7
    December 11, 2008 at 5:59 pm #

    spanish fry.
    I dont think its about who you play. Because all the teams are quality.

    Its about playing your home game in the second leg.
    Its a massive advantage. Believe me

  3. India-Gunner
    December 11, 2008 at 6:03 pm #

    Anybody know where can I see the highlight?

  4. Gebreyesus
    December 11, 2008 at 6:10 pm #

    Do not make this deafetable logic. Rather to me it is better to say, a skillful midfielder to pair Fabri will come in the open window. Otherwise, all clubs are difficult for Arsenal now because the second round is out of their field. They need to win with out conceding at home.

  5. gunnersson
    December 11, 2008 at 6:12 pm #

    I watched the game. I am not saying this out of any remorse or frustration; in fact i am ok being 2nd in group. The game was amongst the worst dispays given by an Arsenal team in the last several years. In fact the commentators were saying that the players seem to have forgotten that they are wearing the red and white shirts, which typify at least one straight pass let alone a passing game.
    Bendtner, Eboue, Diaby were the initial culprits later joined by almost the whole team except Ramsey, Djourou, Sylvestre to some extent. It was a bit scary cos it revealed for the first time, how badly we are capable of playing. Most passes went to Porto players or to vacant spaces. Movement of players was poor. Game was so very frequently broken by mis-passes and hence was not flowing. FIrst half both teams were on same patch. 2nd half porto picked their game up and we dropped one more notch. We lost the plot in the midfield, were lacking confidence up front and were resigned to fate in the defence. Gallas and Denilson seemed to we working very hard without any results.

  6. India-Gunner
    December 11, 2008 at 6:15 pm #

    Watched first 20 min. Song was useless can’t pass the ball. Diaby was just there to show his skill and slow down the game. Bendtner need to be dropped for few games to wake him up. Vela work hard but Porto closed down the game pretty well and Bendtner, Song & Diaby didn’t help him. Only good point is Djouru was pretty good for first 20 min at least with what I saw. Mikael didn’t have the same wave length with other players. Eboue needs a lot of improvement if he wants to carry on with Arsenal. He is ok as back up right back.

    My feeling is we going to draw against Bayern and knock out by Ribery’s goals in Munich.

  7. Ovie a.
    December 11, 2008 at 6:27 pm #

    Knowin our possible opponents finishin 1st or 2nd gives me relief ‘cos i tink there’s no difference.we r capable of beatin any team in europe.but sometimes arsene should know its important 2 finish top 4 us 2 b respected always ‘cos i tink thats 1 thing we’re losin fast.

  8. fernando guilherme
    December 11, 2008 at 6:31 pm #

    Firstly to India-Gunner please dont bother trying to see the highlights unless you wants to watch Porto play.Ramsey had a decent shot saved in the first half and this is where i agree with Gunnersson’s comments that it was probably the biggest crap that Arsenal have ever played.Gallas,Diaby,Brentner,Song were poor,Vela goes down easily,Silvsetre is too slow to play the whole game (Second goal proves what i am saying).
    on the bright side we have qualified and we can still beat anybody with our best team, but Arsene you will need to spend money in the new year to ensure that we remain competitive to win something for a change. WE love you Gunners

  9. bean
    December 11, 2008 at 6:35 pm #

    gunnersson & India-Gunner, I completely disagree with you. the difference last night was simply goals! watch the whole game again and see how well we passed and moved in the first 20 mins; watch the amount of set pieces we wasted; and watch how many times bendtner (who i do think will be a decent striker) gave the ball away needlessly. if we had taken one of those chances in the first half it would have been a totally different game. As it was, they got a couple of set pieces in the first half, scored from one, and it waws from there that our young team looked inexperienced and unconfident. I was quite pleased with the all round game to be honest; Denilsen looked much more industrious and effective, diaby didn’t seem to hang on to the ball as long as he normally does, djourou is surely now undroppable, and Vela is starting to lookmlike the real deal once he finds the right partner up front and plays consistently.
    Yes, i would have rather won the game and finished top of the group, but i still believe we’ll see off any of those teams, including barce.

  10. Jacobs Femi
    December 11, 2008 at 6:41 pm #

    Our loss to Porto was not too bad really. But the performance of our players measure less than could be tolerated.

    Please, tell Wenger to Sell Bentner or if he so love him and his career, loan him out to gain experience.

    Diaby is good, but dribbles too much. Sylvester is not smart. We sincerely need to buy players. Striker, midfield and defender.

    Thanks

  11. Demetrio
    December 11, 2008 at 6:59 pm #

    I want Barca…
    A chance to knock Hleb out the CL would be great. If we dont win it, knowing that a little cry baby, ice cream eatting bitch named Hleb didnt win it will be just as good.

  12. KURUPT
    December 11, 2008 at 7:16 pm #

    All is not lost its ok I think if fab doesnt play we dont win now that hes captain!

  13. Jay
    December 11, 2008 at 8:00 pm #

    I want barcelona – We could possibly (and this heart over head here) just nick it – Away goals maybe – Thats if we actually get out of our own half! If we can beat Barcelona then the team will be buzzing and make a real push for the last part of the season! A chance to Hleb out would be brilliant, but the game as a spectacle would surely be awesome.

    But honestly, i dont see us beating Barcelona – I have watched them pretty much every week and they look stunning – Etoo, Henry, Messi, Xavi, Keita and Puyol are so good.

    All games are tough but i suppose Panathinaikos is the “easiest” – But we all know we will get a toughy!!

  14. ramugunner
    December 11, 2008 at 8:31 pm #

    I wasn’t worried about the result against Porto, what worried me was player’s effort and Wenger’s team selection. Wenger makes mistakes but never regrets them. Everyone who watch Arsenal play can tell Bentdner as a lone striker is never gonna work, but Wenger doesn’t know. We need a serious reinforcement of the team. Almunia, Silvestre, Song, Diaby, Denilson are not good enough to play for Arsenal. Our super kids are also not super except 3 with good potential, Vela, Wilshere and Ramsey. Interesting, Wilshere did more than what Diaby+Denilson did in 20 minutes.

    Boro game will be tough given Wenger has never won against Southgate. They have better organized defense than ours plus players who gives everything against Arsenal. Without sicknote Nasri out, we will struggle to hold the ball in midfield. Only positive thing is that Fabregas is playing better of late and under his captaiancy we have a perfect record. I hope it will continue.

  15. jebo
    December 11, 2008 at 8:41 pm #

    i agree with your idea, i prefer barca…..and i don’t mean that the kids won’t win the others..but i want 11 against 11 match with those lads…who took the cup in 2006/07…..and i’m waiting for a revenge…it will be great game too, since they are the one whoseem to be playing as we used to and we will see who is the best..

  16. India-Gunner
    December 11, 2008 at 9:17 pm #

    This season is like we can beat any team and any team can beat us too! Karma?

  17. India-Gunner
    December 11, 2008 at 9:25 pm #

    Panathinaikos is the “easiest”??

    I thought we would like to avoid this kind of high ball team? If I can choose I would like to play Real Madrid or Roma. I’m not saying they are the weakest team but our style of play could beat them more easily.

  18. Fatboy
    December 11, 2008 at 9:39 pm #

    Let’s get real here. If we draw Barca we’ll be slaughtered. The fact that Henry and Hleb will be in the team will increase the humiliation. We need Panathinaikos or Bayern to stand any chance of getting through. If we get lucky in the next round, it’s very unlikely we’ll get any further; we don’t have the players and the manager’s lost the plot. Sorry to be negative, but that’s the way it is.

  19. India-Gunner
    December 11, 2008 at 9:44 pm #

    Fatboy,

    I don’t want Panathinaikos. We are going to be beaten by 2 header goals if we face Panathinaikos. The most wanted for me is Inter Milan! AW needs to beat Moanrinho to get back his own confidence!!!! Ha ha …

    No matter what the most further we can go this season in CL is quarter final.

    Alex from Chelski wants to leave. I reckon he could be handy for us??

  20. Fatboy
    December 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm #

    @ India-Gunner

    I think maybe you’re right- quarter final is the best we can expect. Looking at the finances, we need to get thru to the quarters to keep the bank happy and make the payments on the stadium loan. That way Mr Wenger might actually spend some money in the summer and strengthen the paper thin squad we have at the moment. But we know he won’t…

  21. Filipino Dan
    December 11, 2008 at 10:41 pm #

    Can’t wait til Saturday! I hope Fab is fit. It will be tough, but maybe last night is added incentive (do we need anymore incentive?!)

    @India-Gunner: Interesting comment about Alex. I thought the same when I heard he requested a transfer. But then again, I remember being at the Emirates when he knocked us out of the CL a couple of years ago. Henry’s last game. hmmmmm, think I’ll stick with Djourou!

  22. Radads RSA
    December 11, 2008 at 10:49 pm #

    Thnks SF for this knock-out match up info.I’ve always thought that winning or loosin agst Porto yesterday didnt matter,as I saw these big teams fallin to the 2nd place, I was thinking that may be it shud be also gud for us to be 2nd so that we would face lower team in the knck-out rd but this seem to be the otherway ard.Panathinaikos is the only small team there, the rest are all danger for us.But who knows??!!!As far as the history of this season taught us, it seems like we play better agst bigger team than agst smaller team, so lets just hope the best for our players.As SF said: the biggest matter now is the game agst BORO on strday.
    Concerning the game yesterday!!!, Well!! It was just the same of the kind of games we played agst Fenrbach or Stoke city and the rest…There wasnt just fire in the team, they couldnt even bring much danger to the Porto’s full back, the first 20mn was the only laps of time we could make some creative passes and show confidence but as soon as they changed the rythm then our team were all defenders, not a single attack attempt anymore.And trust me guys but that was really a strategy from the coach, and very clever becoz they already knew our weakness and it worked!!!.Give our players confidence in the 1st 20mn by slowin down the game or get relaxed a bit and Change the rythm of the game suddenly.They played us like they were playing agst lil boys.Our players arent just strong im their mind.I dont really know whts the reason for this: May be just bcoz they are soccer star@a very young age and they cant handle it?? or may be they arent just strong enough.WE REALLY SHUD HAVE PUT OUR MAXIMUM TO WIN AGST PORTO YESTRDAY.AT LEAST THE FANS COUD HAVE SEEN A BIT OF PRESSURE ATTACK OR SOME FEW GOAL ATTEMPTS AGST PORTO AVEN IF WE COULDNT HAVE SCORED AND KEPT THE GAME 0-0.

  23. Gibbs
    December 12, 2008 at 12:24 am #

    Im not angry that we finished 2nd in our group. I would love to be drawn agains Panathinaikos or Roma. I pray that we wont play agains Barca, Juve or Bayern. But even if we do, i think we will be strong enough to beat teams like Barca and Juve by then (home and away). Most injured players will be back and there will be a few new players in the squad. There is no reason to panic my fellow Gooners, lets support Wenger and the boys.

  24. TayGoon
    December 12, 2008 at 1:07 am #

    Ronaldo7; Going through on a second leg at home works with a team whose supporters are always behind their team. This is a young team, the preassure of a must-win game at home, coupled with the fans attitude and preasure, I would prefer an away game for that. Boos from oppossing fans makes you want to fight more, but your own fans will kill you.

    I said the same thing last season at this stage and drew a lot of criticism for it and I will say it again. AW was not trying to win this group. He would prefer an away second leg to one at home due to reasons above.
    The lesson from PSV 2 seasons ago was enough. There is not as much pressure on the first leg as is on the second leg. Being at home, an away goal comes into play and puts the home side under helluva lot preassure. With both fans not able to handle the preassure, they will pass it(amplified of course) to the team, which being young might prove disastrous.

  25. jay-jay
    December 12, 2008 at 1:23 am #

    If we get Roma or Panithaikos I will be pleased. I have a feeling we will get Barca, I jus have this feeling. I also wouldn’t mind Juventus either.

  26. TayGoon
    December 12, 2008 at 1:36 am #

    As I was watching the game I was struggling to find an excuse for Bendtner at first, but then I paid attention to our midfield and I can say I forgive Bendtner. We could have best used bendtner as second striker, not the main one because he lacks pace and if he had to drop that deep to get the ball, there was very little chance he could have done anything with it that is very good. If I had to pick only two players to praise for their efforts it will be Wilshere and Denilson, not in that order. @Fatboy: I sincerely start to think you are praising Ramsay because he is British, or you know his family. For a central MF, 44 passes attempted with a pathetic 68% success rate is NOT GOOD. For me Song takes the cake, Sory SF, with only 59 attempts and 73% success rate for someone whose primary responsibility is linking teammates. I suppose you don’t link them by chaining them together and my naivety tells me thet it is done by passing the ball around. Diaby had a very good 85% success rate, but a poor 46 attempts. If one thing, the game highlighted that Denilson is miles ahead of his central Midfield contenders at the momment. Good tackling,covered over 500 mt more than the second arsenal player(Vella), 92 passes (more than anyone on the pitch), with a success rate of 80%( which is respectable poor by his average of 85% in the EPL and equals that of Cesc in EPL)

    Ramsay: We know you are good, but dribling is not the first thing to do with the ball. It slows down the game.

    Song: You are a good defender, 1 touch or 2, then pass the damn thing. See Cesc, He mostly passes on his first touch.

    Diaby: We know you can drible, but pass the damn thing.

    We have looked toothless everytime we have Diaby and Song on the field at the same time. The reason is not that they are bad, but the styles are such that they dampen our springs. It is akin to diving from a concrete slab as opposed from a springloaded springboard. Sure you will have some height but not much. The Arsenal way of play is fast passing game, and one of each could be ok if countered by a more fluid, mobile, and fast second striker upfront. but two of them with only Bendtner upfront you are just looking for excuses to blame Bendtner. He is the kind of player you need to leave around the penalty box to get the most out of, not to have him collect the ball at halfway line and beat the entire defense. I like Song, but for us to have the potential to threaten opposing teams from the MF, I would have Denilson and Cesc in the middle. The “concrete” hasn’t prevented us conceding so far, so why lose our attacking flair too?!?!?!?!??!

  27. gunersson
    December 12, 2008 at 1:52 am #

    Well, someone didnt agree with my comment about how we played. I came across the comments of someone else who watched the game from a better angle than me, he said :
    “We were not in the game at any moment. We didn’t pass the ball well, we lost too many balls and this way, you always lose.
    The name’s Manuel Almunia.
    I am not trying to prove a point. But I would like fans to be real. When its as bad a game as yesterday purely because we played absolute trash fotball not worthy of Arsenal colours, we must be very very clear about it and not just brush it aside.

  28. Radads RSA
    December 12, 2008 at 2:26 am #

    @Taygoon,Ofcourse Denilson is gud player, and I even say he is a world class player.But his job is nt to partner with Fab, both of them shud sbstitute to each other.I am big FAB-Uluous Fan but I can tell u this: If Denilson works on his passes (Which isnt an easy task and need more smart play!!!!), I would prefer to see him on the pitch than Fab.There are some qualities (and important ones)that Denilson have but Fab doesnt and vice versa.But for now I always prefer to see Fabuluous on the pitch.We could play Denilson if we play 4-5-1 which means we have to drop RVP.But we cannot drop Song and put Denilson on his Job as the main task on that position is defending not attacking.We REALLY need a strong CDM player.Lokk at all the big teams , they all have!! and even Barca hav got two of them (Keita, YaYA)Milan has got 2 (Gatuso,Flamini), Muntary for inter,Mascherano for liverpool etc etc….You cant out there and play agst those teams without these kind of key players.Ask around to see if this midfld line up would work: Messi-Xavi-Iniesta-Thierry H.
    and u will play 4-4-2 with Eto-o and Bojan/Gudjunsen upfront.Cdm must be there to protect and recover those midfld.And please dont blame Song, coz I can see that the guy has really received the message frm the fans and has put a lot of improvement on his game.This is not about Song playing with Diaby,Song has just done his job and Diaby does his.Diaby didnt have good game yesterday coz he dribbled quite a lot, it simple as that.

  29. TayGoon
    December 12, 2008 at 3:04 am #

    @Radads RSA; Whenever Song plays, I struggle to see the improvement in defense solidity. He just gives people/Denilson haters some confidence that it is not Denilson. But we have never been as sharp going forward. As anyone can attest to, Clean sheets don’t win you games, it doesn’t lose you any either. To win, we have to be strong and sharp going forward. The higher up the field we keep the opposition occupied, the less the pressure on our defense. I would rather see a 4-2 or a 5-3 win rather than a nervy 1-0. It just piles more preassure to the players and ends up with fans booing their own team. We have a leaky defence, and whether you have Mascherano, Gattuso or Flamini, it is the defense that should defend. Those guys have a better defense than ours so they can go ahead and shine. I have been saying since the end of last season that our defense will improve if Gallas is not involved. He committs more errors than Senderos per game and leaves the defense exposed too many times trying to score on the other end. if my intelect would serve me right, that is what we have strikers for, and good strikers at that.

    You win Games by outscoring the opposition, period. Untill we get our attacking flair going again, we will always struggle.

    Although Song is a much better defender than Denilson, Denilson has better skills, better engine, more inteligent, better passer, better dribbler, and has more pace than Song. And I thought those are the qualities you would want from your Central Midfielder.

    I will say this again. The current Arsenal squad is not suited/tailored for a TRADITIONAL WAY OF PLAY. STOP ASKING THE TEAM TO PLAY TRADITIONALLY. IT IS NOT OUR STRONG SUIT AND WE DON’T HAVE PLAYERS FOR IT. THE TEAM HAS BEEN COMPOSED FOR THE ARSENAL WAY, WHICH DEPENDS ON HAVING A VERY MOBILE, HIGHLY SKILLED, AND INTELIGENT CENTRAL MIDFIELD FOR WHICH SONG IS NOT THERE YET.
    Just like L’pool doesn’t have players for attractive football, if they play attractive, they lose. That is why other teams have to win UGLY because, to win beautifully, you have to play beautifull, and they just CAN’T

  30. TheOne
    December 12, 2008 at 3:20 am #

    Barca all the way. Henry and Hleb coming back to Emirates will be great, and Cesc will be on show to lure them to make a bid of £25m+ for him. Lets face it, Cesc aint gona stay, so lets give him a chance to show everyone in Europe the reason why Gunners fans will miss him.

  31. Ice Baba
    December 12, 2008 at 3:59 am #

    I am really worried with the way and manner we handle teams that we play these days, I am praying that Wenger does not loose the dressing room respect any time soon, cos it will spell DOOM for the club we all support all year round.Cos no man on earth can keep up with inconsistency. If we slip this season without any trophy, i bet you there will be MASS EXODUS of our strong players and that will be the end of the club and manager. The only solution is to BUY players that wants to shine and produce result with AFC. Yes we support the managers policy of bring players thru the ranks, but sticking to it without shifting ground puts a lot of work load on our first team players and they might buckle soonest.
    Ask me anytime Nick is not a top class striker and we lack the finishing of one, so loan him and get a world class to fill his space.SLy too slow (age),all we need 3 inclusion that will energize the team.

  32. Radads RSA
    December 12, 2008 at 5:37 am #

    @Theone, ofcourse this is 50%football and 50% business,but nobody here wants to see Fab-Uluous leaving the Emirates.And there is only one place where Fab would want to go when he leaves here one day its Barca, where he grew up and where his family are.For now, you see that Barca is on top of their game and overcrowded with stars like him,They dont need him there but they just want him to be part of their squad.
    @Taygoon,Ofcourse my friend, the best defense is attacking,but I think that u and I have really seen many times AW putting this line up on the midfield:Walcott-Denilson-Fab-Nasri, And I ve always also thought that this is the best ever midfld line up that we could have but it didnt just work.For me personnaly, its the best line up.but why it didnt work?
    I totaly agree with you with the idea of weakening the oppnents by pushing on attack but I beleive in a 60%defender and 40%good attack launcher CDM.This player doesnt have to be fully skilled attacking mdfldr as you mentionned above.For me he just have to be strong and fast enough to launch an attack.If Denilson is improving on his defensive quality as he is busy doing now (But still not enough though!!)then I strongly recommend your idea.Look at ManU, they are also opting the same tactics that you recommend but take a look at the vivacity and the dynamism of every ManU players on the pitch.They all attack together and defend together, and I beleive that you have also noticed this on ManU.If we want this line up to happen again then this is exactly the way that all Arsenal players should behave on the pitch.Defend together up fron the centre and attack together(Like sagna and Clichy do to back the wing upfront)
    And we had this line up during the startin of the season but our players were not strong enough to defend together.They didnt want to run when defendin but they all wanted to when attackin.Denilson has improved a lot on his defense, I must admit but he still gotta do more.And I personnaly beleive that all these 5defeats had a big impact and gave us a gud lesson on our defensive quality.This concerns all our mdfld players including Fab, I could also see him improving a lot on his defensiv quality after all of these Arsenal crisis.But for now we need Song for not loosin games anymore.

  33. TayGoon
    December 12, 2008 at 6:57 am #

    @Radad RSA: The points you are making are good. The problem I have with Song is he does not have an attacking side to him. We get the 60% Defensive and 5% Attacking(I am just being generous here, 1% is more like it). Playing on the left side of Central MF, where we also have Nasri(who is not the fastest LW we have) we only have Clichy for speed on that side, with both Nasri and Song being slow. That leaves us one sided and easy to deal with and also nullifys the effectiveness of Clichy’s runs. If we have Song there, I would prefer droping Nasri for Vella, but since Nasri is better than Song, We have to drop Song, keep Nasri, and use Denilson in central MF. You said about Man U that they defend together, and attack together, well the attacking part is what Song does not give us at the moment. If you look at the last few games, Denilson has gone into challenges and won more than Song has. More importantly, he wins the ball upfront where a defense becomes an attack in an instant. Song can intercept balls in our half but we need someone to be willing to harrass the opposition for possession.

    Now if I may ask you, you have reffered to Denilson’s “defensive game”, can you point out where he is lacking? I have almost all arsenal games recorded and I usually watch them more than once, and I haven’t been able to find Denilson’s defensive mistakes that everyone keeps reffering to. Can you give me a clue where to look?

  34. Spanish Fry
    December 12, 2008 at 8:05 am #

    @ TayGoon / Radads RSA – My opinion on the Denilson/Song discussion is pretty simple. I don’t see Denilson as a defensive midfield at all, I know his stats are good but he just doesn’t work well with Fabregas. Song might not perfect but his mind is on defending rather than attacking and that’s why I like him in the middle. Flamini may have attacked more than Song does but this ‘defence first’ mentality is something that one of our midfielders needs to have (I’d suggest both Vieira and Gilberto had it too) and I prefer him in there over Denilson.

  35. TayGoon
    December 12, 2008 at 8:45 am #

    @SF: Fair enough. It seems like you prefer defense while I prefer attack. I played in all 11 positions during my time although I was primarily an AM/2nd striker. Regardless of whatever kind of marking I received, all I needed was my teammate trusting me and put the ball where I ask him to, whether I was there or not(mostly I wasn’t there) and I will get to it and beat my defender everytime. I know how futile it was, and still is to defend someone who can think fast, so the best way is just to keep them occupied by attacking them. Most of the defenders in the EPL scares me with their defending, it is too bad that the strikers don’t take full advantage of that, as a result, you have defenders exploiting fellow defenders’ mistakes and we see goal scoring defenders all over.

    You mentioned Vieira and Gilberto having a defence first mentality, but one other thing those two had which we don’t have alot at the moment is genuine pace from natural wingers, and Henry and Bergkamp both were blazing fast. Their defence first approach was countered by the ability of the other 4 players in front of them to carry the ball from the halfway line to the penalty box with blazing speed. Since we lack that kind of speed at the moment, we need to balance it with sheer numbers from behind to push to front 4 up the field. If we don’t and they have to pick the ball deep, they are out of ideas by the time they get into the penalty box(if they make it that far)

  36. MoMONEY
    December 12, 2008 at 9:10 am #

    Agree 100% with Spanish Fry’s last comment… Song is dedicated to D which is what we need… Denilson still does not know his role…

  37. Ianinja
    December 12, 2008 at 5:27 pm #

    We still play with a mobility? I thought the days of the slick 1-2 passing football of 1998-2004 has changed into slow take your time 68% possesion passing of the new Arsenal. Look at how many touches Denilson takes( in fact all of them). Well this current Arsenal plays slow possesion football with no fast forwards or wingers. If we had mobility we wouldn’t be leaking goals, because none of them is mobile enough to interchange into each others position. I aggree they are good players but they’re lacking that extra spark or maybe special talent? to mimic how the double team use to play or the invincibles. Anyway all is not lost, this season would be a good schooling for them and if they still cannot step it up, Wenger has to buy somebody else anyway since this Arsenal is modelled after Cesc, there has to be somebody who can complement him. Denilson, Diaby, Song, all good players but since they haven’t been able to progress and are good enough as the first team backups, it’s time for new players. Anyway the premiership squad is not a research and development facility for young aspiring footballers, we have the Academy for that, hope Arsene make wise decisions after this season, there’s problems at Arsenal and most fans want it solved.

  38. Ianinja
    December 12, 2008 at 5:37 pm #

    Oh yeah, Tay you play all 11 positions? Gnarly mate, I always try to escape from playing goalie for sunday soccer. Anyway keep up the love, support Arsenal:)

  39. TayGoon
    December 13, 2008 at 1:39 am #

    @Ianinja: I started in goal as a kid, there was not enough action so I moved to a traditional number 10 where my coaches decided my distribution could be used better with 2 strikers in front of me so I was dropped back to CM as an attacking MF where I played most of the time. That exposed my defensive side of the game(and the start of the end of my playing days) As a gymnast and a martial artist(not too good, but for my size I had to learn the stuff to protect myself), and a basketball player for my highschool, and sprinter (I did 100 mts in 12 seconds), I won most of the 2 v 1, and almost all 1 vs 1s so they used me first in RB and LB, where I had to go forward to get some action, I found myself being used again in Left and Right Midfield. Then they discovered I could outjump alot of people (again thanks to Basketball and gymnastics) I found myself in Central Defense. From then on I was the consumate utility player (which I didn’t like very much) I never started a game and finish it in less than 2 positions, and it was killing my groove. Got hacked too many times (fast and very agile), No professional league to speak of, Got a job that paid me in a month what I would have to play for a year to get, there was no reason risking the job for soccer. I quit at a ripe old age of 20. I just started playing “sunday soccer” last summer, but it is winter now.

  40. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 2:19 am #

    Please Dear Santa…

    I want Barca BUT in the final (revenge)
    I want Alex
    I want Hildebrand
    and I want a monster on our midfield

  41. ArsenalMM01
    December 13, 2008 at 2:29 am #

    I know this is a bit off-topic but I read this on BBC about Johan Djourou at the bottom of the page.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/7778878.stm

  42. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 2:39 am #

    Thats hilarious!

    I also hope that thing about Bendtner and Gallas are true.

  43. TayGoon
    December 13, 2008 at 3:06 am #

    It is very unlikely for Bendtner though, as he is the only physical backup we have for Adebayor. TH14 was not a small guy remember. AW is not going to go for a small forward line only as our option. Theo, Vela, Eduardo and RVP are not physical. I think he has been mentioned because he is under preassure at the moment.

  44. jay-jay
    December 13, 2008 at 3:23 am #

    People heard about Gallas and Bendtner rumours. Also anyone heard how Djourou hydrates his skin.

  45. TayGoon
    December 13, 2008 at 3:37 am #

    @ jay-jay; I think Djourou is on to something here.

  46. Jacobs Femi
    December 13, 2008 at 3:47 am #

    Nothing is wrong with smearing body. We employed him to play football and if he is measuring up. Please let us forget trivialities and look forward to winning Boro.

    I support selling Bendtner or loan him, but AW must buy another striker better than Bayo. Energetic and ready to compete for ball.

    Adebayo does not compete when long pass is kicked to him, rather he will be expecting the ball to be on-the-run (blocking the other player) He should stop staying behind oponents.

  47. Gibbs
    December 13, 2008 at 3:53 am #

    Maybe if the whole team uses Djourou’s “mango-flavoured body butter”, they’ll perform better. It must be a part of the contract from now on. Every new player that signs for Arsenal must use it.

  48. jay-jay
    December 13, 2008 at 3:58 am #

    Djourou is having fantastic performances so I think the whole squad should use mango-flavoured body butter. Also Bendtner should go out on loan. And bring in Jo on loan and buy Vagner Love or Benzema.

  49. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 6:46 am #

    UPDATE

    Ivan Helguera from Valencia, who was under contract until 2010 breaked his contract today so he is FREE

    C´mon Arsene sign for FREE Hildebrand and Helguera and sign Alex !!!

  50. jay-jay
    December 13, 2008 at 7:28 am #

    @ Mexican Gunner – If Casillas, Terry, Gerrard, David Villa, Messi etc were all FREE i doubt Wenger would go for them. I hope he goes for Appiah, Hildebrand and Helguera and what a signing Alex would be, strong, tall, great physique. C’mon ARSENE PLEASE! The transfer window is open from 1st Jan til 2nd Feb 5.00 pm GMT.

  51. Gibbs
    December 13, 2008 at 7:42 am #

    @ Mexican Gunner
    Hildebrand will be joining Hoffenheim in January, its a done deal according to wikipedia. and Helguera is too old IMO

  52. Demetrio
    December 13, 2008 at 8:19 am #

    Im not sure i agree with the “sign Alex” calls. If Alex isn’t good enough to make it into the Chelsea starting squad, there’s a reason for it. Even when Alex has played for Chelsea i personally think he looks the poorest of all their defenders.

    As for Appiah, no way in hell do i want him at Arsenal. There is a reason he has not been signed, even after going on a trial at West Ham. So if you’re saying a player not good enough for West Ham is good enough for Arsenal, you must not think much of Arsenal.

    Once again, people cry out for these very poor players, then complain when they don’t preform well. Go figure.

    David Villa wants to play at Arsenal, i think Wenger not signing him shows how ignorant he is. Giovinco has been linked with Arsenal, i think if he does come, it will be some kinda deal involving Gallas since the Old Lady (Juve) wants Gallas. Giovinco is the next Totti so he will be a good signing if it happens. But we desperately need a CB and a DMF. Yaya has been linked heavily with Arsenal, not too sure thats the way to go. Veloso might be an option although i know some of you don’t like him. The best option, would try all we can to get Liverpool to sell Alonso, which unless Liverpool get Barry i doubt they will. So the second best option is to go after De Rossi, and i don’t see him leaving Roma. So really Wenger has a tough time come January as i don’t think many clubs will be willing to sell, with the global economy the way it is, and the players we are linked with all just about are playing CL football, and clubs don’t sell players when they are in the CL. So i would suggest no one get their hopes up to high, becasue there is a good chance Wenger will not buy anyone in January.

  53. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 8:29 am #

    Yes demetrio I also think Appiah is not good I never understand why everybody wants him.

    Alex was very good at PSV and Im pretty sure that he´s far better than other rejecteds that Arsene buy in the past.

    Villa, do you know how much cost him?

    Giovinco, he is the new DelPiero NO WAY that Juve let him go.

    Veloso, I never seen him play.

    Yaya, Im tired of read his comments about how happy he is at Barca.

    We only could dream on DeRossi, Alonso, Helguera and Hildebrand, nothing more that them.

  54. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 8:30 am #

    @Gibbs

    I hope Wikipedia is wrong (like always)

  55. Gibbs
    December 13, 2008 at 8:57 am #

    Well, Villa wants to play for Arsenal, Wenger must sign him, he will really dumb if he doesnt and i will be pissed. Fabregas has been calling for Arsenal to sign Villa since the summer, i think he is the one who’s pulling the strings here. Wenger must sign him, £20m is a small price to pay for a player of such quality.

    @ Mexican Gunner
    I also hope wiki is wrong about Hildebrand, if they are, i hope Wenger signs him.

  56. Mexican Gunner
    December 13, 2008 at 9:02 am #

    Arsenal will never pay 35mill Euros for a player. And if Im not wrong I think he is 28 years old.

    For the half of that price I prefered Podolski.

  57. Demetrio
    December 13, 2008 at 9:09 am #

    @ Mexican Gunner –

    You’d be surprised about Juve’s willingness of letting Giovinco go now. Giovinco is not really liking Juve, 1st because of his contract, now because… well whatever reasons and I think Juve are not liking his attitude. I think if Arsenal come to the table with Gallas and money for Giovinco.. Juve will take that deal.

    @ Gibbs –

    I totally agree. I don’t know how on earth Wenger has not signed Villa (a guy that has said, he would love to play at Arsenal over the summer). Even if it cost 20m. Scoring 20 goals a season would make up for the money spent.

  58. Gibbs
    December 13, 2008 at 9:12 am #

    @ Mexican Gunner
    If you’re talking about Villa: he is 27 (just 2 years older than RVP and Sagna), he is not old, he still has 8-10 years left to play.

  59. Demetrio
    December 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm #

    Yeah i mean we need experience in the squad. 22 year olds are not experienced. So adding two or three 26-28 year olds would add some much needed experience and balance out the youth. We need a David Villa in our team. Yes Ade scored 20 some goals last season, but you must remember, a lot of those came against sides like Derby (the worst team in Premier League history). This year he isn’t even scoring against the lesser teams besides the Blackburn game. So we could use a guy like David Villa who is just ruthless when it comes to goal scoring.

    And just imagine a partnering of Eduardo/Villa.. Or RVP/Villa… Our front line would be amazing then. The facts our Villa wants to play for Arsenal, and i don’t see why Wenger would not buy him, maybe not in January, maybe in the summer, although he should have been an Arsenal player when in the summer he came out and said he wanted to play for Arsenal. Its just another class player Wenger has passed up that could have really helped up this season.

  60. MoMONEY
    December 13, 2008 at 4:00 pm #

    I would love Villa but are we really going to compete with Man City whith Valencia so desperate for cash? I doubt it happens but I would love it if it did…

    Benzema is also an option but with Lyon not as desperate, a swap for Adebayor could be possible I think…

    Yaya isnt leaving I think- Xabi would be a rgeat signing tho…
    Hildebrand is gone to Hoffenheim for sure- I have ready many articles…

    I still think Zapata should be a target in D…

  61. jay-jay
    December 13, 2008 at 11:44 pm #

    1-1 at HT, I honestly cant see us getting the 3 points. We have to really step up in the second half.

  62. Demetrio
    December 14, 2008 at 12:42 am #

    This game really shows why we wont win the title. We are a bad team. There’s no way of getting around that. There has been times Boro have played our boys off the pitch. I think Wenger will concede the title today, so there should be no more talks of us winning the title. Aston Villa might go ahead of us today, our attention needs to be squarely on securing the top 4.

  63. Demetrio
    December 14, 2008 at 12:46 am #

    And if reports in Italy are right. Gallas will be going to Juve in January. Thats one bad player out of Arsenal.. about 4 more to go.

  64. gunner
    December 14, 2008 at 12:46 am #

    very bad coaching by Wenger! Vela, Ramsey and Wilshere on the bench and he brings no of these, while Denilson had not his best day, also van Persie…

  65. Gibbs
    December 14, 2008 at 12:59 am #

    What a shame!

  66. ramugunner
    December 14, 2008 at 1:16 am #

    It’s a shame to watch Wenger and Arsenal struggle against Southgate and Aliadiare. Wenger said he rested his first-teamers because he wanted 3 points from this game. Where was the willingness and desire to win? Even some players try their best, they don’t have quality to play for Arsenal. I don’t want to bash out at any players today. Wenger has been the main problem at Arsenal. He is the one who thinks a bunch of shites are class who can win title for Arsenal. No way. More than half of today’s first teamer’s will struggle to make starting line-up of Everton team. This shows Arsenal’s ambition and Wenger vision. Few points about today’s team.

    1. Zero wide player who can run at the fulback and then provide a cross or shoot. Zero.

    2. No creativity, no intelligence and no movement bar Cesc in the midfield.

    3. Ade/RVP attacking partners did nothing except for Ade’s goal.

    Wenger is not able to motivate his players anymore. All he can do is sit on the bench and shake his head. His team selection and substitution is really shocking, appaling. Why wait till 82nd minute to make a substitution. Wilshere and Ramsey have already proved that they can do better than Diaby/Denilson. So why not give them a chance.

    Being a brilliant manager with such a great experience why the fuck is Wenger being so stubborn? Rubbish? We need a serious change in personnel and mentality.

  67. Arsenal-a-joke(ala Wenger)
    December 14, 2008 at 1:24 am #

    This has now gone beyond a joke.

    I have personally seen enough of this.
    Question: despite all the apologetic nonsense some have come out with, what was the demoralizing defeat in Porto? Wenger claimed it was to ‘come back in the league’? Really? Because by 5pm this evening Arsenal could be 10 points off Liverpool and in fifth place, one point behind Villa.

    Again I ask: what was the point of Wednesday night then?

    Wenger’s favouritism policies are killing the team. Case in point Abou Diaby. He was head and shoulders the worst player in Portugal on Wednesday night. A man his size with no strength, an inability to track a man and who offers absolutely no threat going forward. I’ve always maintained this about Diaby: he has no footballing intelligence. He never spots runners. Look at today?

    First ten minutes, Arsenal are 4 on 3, Adebayor is alone and unmarked in acres of space to the right. Diaby’s choice? Unleashes a wasteful high punt into row Z. Barely 10 minutes after that, Diaby was again at the byline, played in by Adebayor and with Van Persie unmarked in the centre. Diaby’s choice? Hit a tame effort near-post.

    And this is the worst part: despite offering the team nothing, wasting possession and generally slowing the team’s progress; Diaby lasted 82 minutes. Unbelievable. Even the usually-useless Abdy Gay in the Sky Sports studio was amazed that Diaby even made it past the second half.

    Again: what is Wenger doing?

    Alex Song wasted pass, after pass, after pass. He is not a holding midfielder, he is nothing at all. Wenger dispensed of defensive midfielders altogether the minute he decided to release Flamini and not replace him. No point pretending he has holding midfielders, play people in their positions.

    Aaron Ramsey would have given this team much-needed penetration. Song and Diaby will never play a through-pass in their lives because quite simply, they do not possess the talent or intelligence to do so. Again though: Song last 95 minutes. He shouldn’t be lasting that long at reserve level though.

    Wenger and the board feed us crumbs of feces about ‘holding back the youth’ were we to sign experienced pros. However this is nothing but a big farce. The fans are being scammed – Jack Wilshere, Carlos Vela and Aaron Ramsey all on the bench. Not one of them gets a chance though.

    Same at home to Wigan last week. When Eboue was subbed off, Wilshere wasn’t even trusted to come on for the last 2 minutes. Nor Ramsey.

    As for Denilson? The next time someone uses OPTA stats to attempt to convince me that Denilson is a good player, I will laugh at them. Denilson gives this team nothing. Defensively he is ok but going forward he creates little. His crossing is woeful.

    Again – he plays every match however because there is no competition for places.

    As for Almunia? Downing almost got a goal today because Almunia refuses to come off his line. He was not at fault for the goal but failed to communicate with Djourou and almost led to Boro scoring another. Sagna was furious with Almunia for not letting him know there was a man pressurising behind him.

    I thought Adebayor was excellent today but again he was let down by the fact that he was playing in front of four central midfielders. I have never heard anything quite so absurd. Please name one club that deploys such a system, and succeeds.

    Yet the board will send us letters asking to renew and pay the highest ticket prices in Europe. Can anyone honestly explain how our wage bill is comparable with United’s? Is that right? Is it right we are funding such a shambolic scheme?

    Fabregas is the one I feel sorry for. He tries and tries and runs his heart out but has no room to develop. For all the talk of youth development, youth only develop if they have quality to learn from. Messi learned from Ronaldinho, Eto’o and Xavi at Barca. Xavi himself learned from Guardiola and Rivaldo. Rooney and Ronaldo learnt from Scholes and Giggs.
    Who does Fabregas learn from? Rudderless is the precise term I believe.

    And as for the substitutions? Incredible. A man that has been in the game as long as Wenger just stands there on the sideline moaning. Again, the commentators were perplexed as to why by the 80th minute, a team that was obviously as flat and devoid of ideas as Arsenal’s had no substitutions made. These substitutions of Wenger’s cost us titles, cost us points and cost us trophies (see Champions League final).

    Anyone telling me that bringing on Ramsey and Wilshere earlier would have made no difference?

    To all the people who believe we can ‘win the Champions League’ I will advise them to watch the make-up of that Arsenal side and then think carefully. There are so disastrous players in this team: Song, Diaby, Denilson and Almunia are shocking beyond words.

    Fabregas, Van Persie are quality players in my views. Genuine quality – but they are let down by the crass midfield.

    As for Clichy? Of course he is at fault for the Boro goal. After Birmingham last season, and then the Spuds this season he Still has not realized that when in doubt you simply put the ball out into touch. He never will learb however because there is no discipline at Arsenal FC and Wenger will permit him to continue these ridiculous basic errors.

    An addendum: today, Boro only had one first-choice defender available. Their first-choice goalie was out. Yet they erased Arsenal easily. Our play has become laborious and predictable for teams to defend against – which explains that it took a set-piece for us to score from. Arsenal threatened the Boro goalie in no way, shape or form. Hull proved last week how poor a side Boro are with that fat-so in goal.

    Nothing from us. Nothing at all.

    It has gone too far and something needs to be done. Wenger needs an ultimatum.

  68. Demetrio
    December 14, 2008 at 1:29 am #

    @ ramugunner

    I think you made a great point. I never understood Wenger’s way of making subs. Why the hell wait til the last ten mins to make a sub. The players cannot even get into the flow of the game with only 10 mins to play. It has always been ridiculous the way he subs players on.

    Also he contradicts himself about youth. He says youth is good enough to win the title. Yet because Whilshere is only 16, he wont start him. Vela whom is older then that and has shown good, he wont even play him because i guess he wants to “protect” these players. Which contradicts his own policy of youth can win things. If he thinks they are such great players, then why are they sitting on the bench?!

    As i said, today shows that the only problem we have, is that this season we are a BAD team. If Aston Villa doesnt have a slip in form we have a real tough time trying to get 4th place ahead of us. Wenger needs to rethink his policy. Stop buying these old, has beens like Silvestre and Gallas, and youth that he wont even start. Start buying players that will help us THIS season, not 5-10 season down the road.

  69. ramugunner
    December 14, 2008 at 1:44 am #

    Agree with Demetrio; We might have a hard time grabbing 4th place. Astonvilla are best team outside big four with quality players like Laursen, Young, Barry and Ablongohar. All these players can easily walk into our first team. They also have one of the best organized defense and a disciplined side, not like us. If Wenger still rates Almunia, Denilson, Diaby and refuses to buy we might be in trouble.

    Also, Agree with Arsenal……

    Diaby has no footballing intelliegence. Song is a mid table quality. Denilson and Almunia are shites. You also make a good point suggesting who can Fabregas, Ramsey, Vela and Wilshere learn from? Diaby or Adebayor, don’t make me laugh. Horrible team selection and substitutions from Mr. Wenger-Fader(cause he is fading).

  70. Gibbs
    December 14, 2008 at 2:14 am #

    Im tryin to be optimistic about this team but its really hard to be positive at the moment. I just dont see us winning anything this season, we just dont have it in us.

  71. LuxinBrasil
    December 14, 2008 at 4:25 am #

    its scary now…..i watch the team and see very little passion and heads dropping all over the place..
    song wasnt on th pitch today…diaby gives the ball away far too easily….even Clichy looked out of sorts….why oh why is Bendtner our back up plan!?…
    We really miss Walcott…This is going to be a tough season that i hope we ride out and finish in at least 4th….i just want to see our players really “want” to play for Arsenal….I believe we need three big name signings in the the transfer window especially as we are reportedly losing Gallas (to Juve) and Bendtner (to West Brom) we need a striker, a defensive midfielder and maybe an extra winger as Rosicky and Nasri and Walcott are either injured or injury prone!!
    Still keeping faith with Arsene but we need something for Christmas!!

  72. MoMONEY
    December 14, 2008 at 6:00 am #

    The good thing is that Liverpool and Man Utd dropped points as well… I guess that if Chelsea draw too we are in the same position we were in before this week… But Villa winning is not good for us at all…

    Its been said over and over again- some of these guys have no business playing in an Arsenal shirt.

    Ona a positive note Djourou is still looking great- even if he likes Mango Body Butter…

  73. Gibbs
    December 14, 2008 at 7:07 am #

    We DO NOT have a problem in defense, we DO NOT have a problem with the strikers. Our problem is the midfield we have the worst midfield in the premiership at the moment. Without Rosicky, Walcott, Nasri and Cesc, we have no creativity and no pace. We have no back up system and that is really pathetic, especially for a team like Arsenal! What will we do when Cesc gets a long term injury??? We desperately need atleast 3 world class players in January, a RWinger, a DM and a LWinger. That’s the only solution IMO. Send Wilshere, Vela, Ramsey, Simpson and the rest of the Young Guns out on loan b/c Wenger clearly has no intentions of using them, Bendtner must join them as well. They’ll gain more experience with other teams, not at Arsenal!

  74. Demetrio
    December 14, 2008 at 10:21 am #

    I would like to see Wenger start the sell off of the players, who have no right to wear an Arsenal shirt, and them replaced with world class players. Starting in January. That way next season, we could have a team that could seriously compete for a title. We will never be able to have a realistic chance to win anything if we keep the muppets on this team and bring in more just like them. I would personally love to see the board sell off the club to someone who has more ambition and wants to win titles. We say our players have no desire to win, well how can they when we have a board paying players like Bendtner whom have no right to even be on an Arsenal training pitch. And a board, that comes out time and time again after games like this and says the support the manager who is allowing this attitude of not giving a damn to continue. A team is only as good as its leader, and Wenger and the board room lead the team. A whole new attitude and winning culture needs to be established, if that means we need a new owner/manager then so be it. But if they don’t start showing more ambition to seriously compete, we will go through this season after season.

  75. hartwick89
    December 14, 2008 at 10:44 am #

    Objectivity; The game today was similar to MU and Liverpool. Great perspective is by watching Everton vs MC. These teams actually put their bodies on the line! Arsenal today obviously was better skilled than MB today. We should have put the game away early…but we did not. So what is left? Yes I would say Song was a danger all game long similar to Eboue. But, at the end of the day was it Wenger’s fault that the boys don’t put thier bodies on the line for every tackle…every head.. every pass? Maybe on the practice pitch. But, in the game the team let us down! They let Wenger down! The team talk should be; this is football; skill doesn’t win a game, nor does good intention! This game is about compettition man vs. man. Do you want to win or what? Winning is simple….do your best at all points on the pitch if you lose by doing everything pitch no problem you lose! We lost today based on heart and desire…We drew today because the boys on the pitch did not want to lose!

  76. Radads RSA
    December 14, 2008 at 10:46 am #

    Deeply agree with you guys,where is Arsenal team we used to watch???? Where in the world is it???? Really really desapointed.I think this is the worse Arsenal team Ive ever seen.i know these guys are talented but may be AW worship them so much as stars so that they spend their time with Chicks and dont have the force to fight on the pitch anymore.No encouragement from the coach ,nor the assistant.Arsenal only thinks about making money, forcing the fans to support these young players,focusing on the idea of producing stars and sell them afterward but not buying stars to win games.I was really pssd off when I watch the Liverpool game agst hull city, Both teams were so alive and all strong during the game, fast play, pass accuracy, dynamism, combativity, never give up minded on evry single minute they fought for the ball.ManU had a draw today but You could see that they were fighting till the end.I dont know WHAT DID WE DO TO WIN AGST MANU AND CHELSKI?????. Ive just watched the game between Barca and Real Mad, What a game!!!!I really see barca winnin us 5-0.And one thing I have noticed is Pep Guardiola who never sat down but going out there under the rain (With his expensive suit)encouraging his players, give instructions, shouting and yelling at his players etc…. and though Barca is a much stronger, experienced and Top of their league.There must be something that we must do as fan, may be writting the same letters on the Club-website or something else cos this isnt gonna work!!!!We really watch them making money out of our pocket.IF THE TEAM HAS FOUGHT HARD, SHOWED SOME QUALITIES BUT LOST THE GAME, FOR ME ITS STILL FINE.But there is no willing to fight at all from the team.Every single fan here have showed their passion for the team, trying hard to figure out what was wrong and try to give solution, some of us have even argued here and swear to each other!!! but I think it was just a waiste of time.I even think that we do have more passion for the name Arsenal than the players themself, they just dont care and dont even realize that its our money that they draw out there from the ATM to earn a comfortable living and to behave like POP Stars as they pretend to be.Sorry for my words guys as some of might be offended but I cant just stand the pain seeing Arsenal ended up like this and almost home of some Parfum stars not real pro-football player.We didnt really moan since we have lost those 5 games for the simple reason that we didnt want to put the pressure on the team as the media has already put some heavy critics and pressure on them.BUT THIS TIME, IT HAS GONE TOO FAR!!!!

  77. Radads RSA
    December 14, 2008 at 10:54 am #

    FORGET ABOUT PL TITTLE GUYZ, CL??? MAY BE MIRACLE!!!OUR PERFORMANCE SO FAR???? WESBROM LIKE OR OSSASSUNA La Liga LIKE.May be next season again.I just pray that Fab-ulous, clichy,Walcott, Sagna, Toure and Ade wont leave the club.

  78. hartwick89
    December 14, 2008 at 11:00 am #

    To me a draw is worse than a loss…I fault Wenger for one thing if the HF talk did not include the quote” please leave your balls on the field! If he says this and they draw because they are unwilling to follow instruction than sack the boys who are unwilling to follow instruction. If he did not have this conversation than sack the coach or better yet bring in the boys who will out compete. These boys will bring the sliverware!

  79. Radads RSA
    December 14, 2008 at 11:03 am #

    Perfume stars not parfum (Thats french!!!!)

  80. hartwick89
    December 14, 2008 at 11:34 am #

    Radads RSA; we agree…a bunch of pussies on the pitch!

  81. LuxinBrasil
    December 14, 2008 at 11:44 am #

    @Radads

    You have put what i feel into words….how much i want my team to win…..how i feel let down…how i watch other games and see different levels of vigour and passion…..whether or not we will win anything it is upsetting to see our team go through this…positive, negative or neutral in attitude…we are poor….some players need to stand up and be counted or get the hell out……AW now is the time to show us what your paid for!

  82. TayGoon
    December 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm #

    So much passion here, me sees.

    As much as we would like our players to put their bodies on the line, we should also keep in mind that if they do, more likely they will get injured and then they are of no help. A balance has to be struck being mindfull of who we have out injured.

    With Theo Rosicky and Nasri out, and thanks to a bunch of idiots who killed Eboue, that option is a bit far fetched right now, but assuming it weren’t, we need Eboue on the right and drop Song to the bench. The reason we looked out of ideas upfront, and some misses, is that even Cesc has to drop deeper with Song in CM. What made Flamini that good last season compared to Gilberto was his attacking game, as defensively he was nowhere near Gilberto.
    Be carefull what you wish for! most of you wished for a more defensive minded central midfielder and you got Song. Stop complaining why we are not scoring as many goals as we used to, or why we are not a threat we used to when our CM was trigger happy.

    In the case of Ramsay, wilshere and Vela’s “protection”. AW is protecting them from fans and not players from other teams. Arsernal Fans know how to criticize their players. As soon as Wilshere start a few games and has a horrible 1, most fans here will be calling for AW and Wilshere to get the can. Remember Walcott this time last season???????

  83. Radads RSA
    December 14, 2008 at 8:13 pm #

    @Taygoon, right if you say that its the real time to put Eboue on, who can bring more acceleration and creativity on the game.
    PUTTING BODY ON THE LINE???? I PERSONNALY THINK THAT THIS IS PART OF THE BUSINESS,This is the players’personnal problem based on the decision that they have made to be a Pro-Football player.This is what they are paid for(Millions and millions of wages), and they have to take the risk on their own sake.To give an angle of an undertanding perspective as Arsenal Fan and as WE all have been always doing, i think The players might have been frustrated from seeing what happened to Rosicky and Eduardo so that they dont wanna risk so much for the sake of their future carriere as they are also still young.May be!!!??? We dont know!!!!But for me: If they are appointed and have decided to engage themself into the PL game and the CL and agreed to take the wages then they have to do the task that they are suuposed to do,regardless of their ages and personnal condition.We pay the most expensive ticket with hope in mind to see our team fighting NOT FORCELY WINNING.Evrybody here understand all the PBM, and i repeat again,EVEN IF WE HAVE LOST THE GAME BUT WE DID GIVE OUR BEST AND FOUGHT TILL THE END, THEN ITS UNDERSTANDABLE.WE WILL ALL LEAVE THE EMIRATES AT THE END OF THE GAME WITH PRIDE IN OUR HEART.AND the worse thing yesterday is that it was BORO. BORO!!!!BOROOOOO!!!!Part of the bottom half in the PL.
    rank. I just dont think that there is a clear technical explanation to unfold Arsenal PBM, This isnt technical at all Taygoon.!!!This is A PERSONNAL PBMs WITH EACH AND EVRY SINGLE STAFFS, MANAGERS AND PLAYERS WITHIN ARSENAL ITSELF.Its not that they have a pbm toward each other but they all see an know the pbm but they cant just sit together and solve it together, its matter of communication between players,the managers and the administration staff.TCHNICAL PROBLEM!!???? I DONT WANNA GIVE OPINIONS ANYMORE, OF COURSE THERE ARE SOME AND ALL DIFFERENT KIND OF IT WITH EVERY SINGLE TEAM WE PLAYED AGST.CDM, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS, GOALIE,FULLBACK,QUALITY STRIKERS ETC ETC.. BUT I DONT REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS THE SOURCE OF THE PBM AT ARSENAL RIGHT NOW.THERE MUST BE SOMETHING ELSE, AND WE AS FANS CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT COZ ITS OCCURING WITHIN THE CLUB ITSELF WHICH WILL NEVER BE EXPOSED TO US, ALL WE CAN DO IS TO WATCH AND TAKE DECISION UPON OUR OWN PERSONNAL INTEREST.THE ONLY ONE AND OBVIOUS PBM WE CAN SEE NOW IS: ARSENAL IS TRYING TO PRODUCE CHEAP YOUNG PLAYERS, TAKING THE RISK OF PUTTING THEM ON THE PL AND CL CHALLENGE SO THAT THEY WILL BE EXPERIENCED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE AND TALENTED AND THEY WILL SOLD AT A VERY HIGH PRICE COS THAT SEEMS TO BE THE FASHION NOWADAYS.BUT IT DIDNT WORK!!!!!At the end of the day, whos loosing? The Fans, spending their time and money.

  84. MoMONEY
    December 14, 2008 at 8:35 pm #

    Rumors resurfacing that Wenger is Targeting Villa in January… WOuld be an immense signing tbh… And still eligible for UCL a swell…

    Also ready about a link to Mexes… The frenchmen is a beast and plays with a ton of heart…

    Wouldn’t it be ironic of Velncia and all of these clubs are forced to sell because of the economic crisis and Arsenal, the one team then managed its money, was the team to swoop in for their stars? I still trust Wenger 100%…

  85. jay-jay
    December 14, 2008 at 9:08 pm #

    Im with MoMONEY – Although we are in a tight spot that we normally are, I cant help but trust AW, he normally comes through and I think if he gets his head right in Jan, our season should be Ok. Mexes, im hopeful that will happen, Please Villa, PLEASE!!!! And a keeper, im sorry Almunia not good enough, not many keepers would have saved Aliadies header but he just isnt good enough. Akinfeev, Malifeev, Neuer, Adler, Kameni, Hart.

  86. annoyed
    December 15, 2008 at 1:00 am #

    There’s too many peeps on here talking about getting rid of Le Boss. Are dese guys realy Arsenal – or are dey Spurs or someone trying to stir up trouble and having a laugh? No one is getting rid of Wenger – got it? You wanna get rid of the greatest manager this clubs ever had? Who transformed this club and made it into one of the Big 4 almost single handed? You wanna be like Spurs and go frew the next 5 years changing manager after manager trying to find ‘the spesshul one’? Eh? We’ve already got the spesshul one – best manager in the world who loves this club – lives this club – breathes this club. Doesn’t just come in on a big pay packet saying ‘okie dokie – s’alright if I do and it’s awlright if i don’t. I’m getting a nice wodge for it.’
    Arsene loves loves loves this club and he loves the players which is why he’s sticking with the players he shouldn’t. He realy honestly believes in them. But he’s not stupid neither. He’s given some of these guys – who’ve come up frew the youth team and reserves – a good crack and they’ve failed. Not all of them but some. You think he can’t see that? Last season we finished 4 points off the top. That’s two wins instead of draws – that close. As it turns out that was the ultimate and we findin that out this season. Now it’s too late for this season – but Le Boss will sort it never you mind. In the meantime if you don’t like the manager and you don’t like the team (and some charlie was tawkin about selling the f-ing club!!) then f-off and go and support Chelsea. They buy a new team every season – that’ll make yer happy you whiner.

  87. Radads RSA
    December 15, 2008 at 1:42 am #

    Ofcourse getting rid of AW is out of the question and thts not the PBM either, and we know tht he is not the only pbm, he might also have some pbm on his own toward the club,but Its the whole club.These guys are just deeply dsapointed, thats why they react like this!!Put urself on their shoes, the game was agst BORO bro!!! not Liverpool, and we sacrificed the CL top rank place for that.The pbm here now is: do u guys have any solution for the current issue?give some if you do.If u think u really love the club that much, then I think the best and the first responsability u have to take is to figure out what is actually going wrong and what is the solution.Otherways there is no point to criticise each other here at all.All of these guys all love the club, thts why they spend their time writtin here.OUR TEAM DOESNT EVEN HAVE THE WILLING TO FIGHT AND WIN, NO FIRE, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE ALL TIRED OR LAZY ON THE PITCH.Thats the pbm here bro!!!!And we know that we have all the technical needs and the talent to carry with that.All we need to do is to make effort and fight with strength to be able to apply and show all of those talents and skills on the pitch.We know its not easy, but thats the main reason that players are out there.No team is gonna let you just do what you want on pitch. they will fight to stop you doin that, and thats what the game is all about, you have to fight to be able to show what you have!!!!And we have good skills to show but we just dont fight to apply it.

  88. annoyed (but calming down)
    December 15, 2008 at 2:10 am #

    Hello Radads RSA – We all know wot the problem is coz its bin said ‘ere a million times and I don’t even want to bring those three particler names up yet again. I reckon it’s too late to save this season now – even if we buy in jan the new players will need time to settle in – so wot I’d like to see is the Brit boys Ramsey and Wilshire and Gibbs given a turn – then at the very least it’d be a heads up for next season. I’d like to see more Brits in the team anyway – nothing, absolutely nothing against the foreign influx – we know the continentals have the skill – but maybe we do miss some of the bulldog spirit too – plus being a Brit meself I get a bit jealous when I see other teams who’ve got them.
    One thing though – you keep talking about Boro like they’re nothing. There’s no ‘nothing teams’ in the EPL. Hull go two-nil up at Anfield. Liverpuddle only got back with goals that should have been disallowed. Spurs shut out man u. and almost knicked it at the end. Who knows maybe W’ham will beat cheslski t’day? we’ve not beaten Boro in quite a long while including when we had players like Hleb, Rosicky, flamini in the team. ‘Boro beat Villa dint they? who beat us. It’s not about not beating individual teams coz any team in EPL can beat any on the day. it’s about the longer haul.

  89. annoyed (but calming down)
    December 15, 2008 at 2:38 am #

    Hammers nil one up at the bridge. No easy games…

  90. Demetrio
    December 15, 2008 at 5:23 am #

    @ annoyed – ????? its not about beating individual teams???? Oh never mind then, my mistake, i thought the point of a game was to win it, but since according to you, its not about beating teams we are doing just fine. I reckon we can go on not beating teams all season.. thats brilliant!

  91. Radads RSA
    December 15, 2008 at 5:30 am #

    @ Annoyed,I also must admit that I slightly underestimated Boro,evn thou I was the one who used to mention to not do that here, I also agree with you about the suggestion of bringing the young guys up to get experienced for the next season.But franckly my friend, please watch the reply of the game again, The boro defense were so opened for an usual full attack Arsenal way of play.In the 1st half they were evn panicking evrytime we attacked of which we shoud have taken advtges but didnt happen.The more attack you launch on pressure to your opponent, the more chance you have for scoring a goal.And we did have the opportunity from the fact that Boro’s defense were desorganised during the 1st half and the 1st 20mn of the 2nd half, counter attack launch opportunity were a lot but we just didnt take them, which means that Its us who didnt take our chance at best but not Boro is the good team.Hull city!!? i totaly agree that they are much stronger and physical team, as well as newcastl or westham or portsmouth or Avilla.But that game yestday was not so tight as the same we played agst those team tht I mentioned above, we could have clearly won that game if we played a bit stronger, didnt even need lots of our skill capacity but just a bit of acceleration, then we could have had more chance to score, watch the reply and u will see yourself.

  92. MoMONEY
    December 15, 2008 at 6:56 am #

    So after the draw we are still in the exact same position we were in before hand… Shame we didnt cut it to 6 points but we just got a get out of jail free card I think…

  93. Spanish Fry
    December 15, 2008 at 8:24 am #

    @ MoMONEY – It’s bizarre. How many more are we going to get?

  94. MoMONEY
    December 15, 2008 at 9:16 am #

    Yea really… And tbh I dont see Liverpool winning it so we are really 7 points back- only 2 behind Man UTD who you know will be in it at the end of the race… I few signings in January, maybe shave off a point or two before the break, and we have a legitimate chance…

  95. jay-jay
    December 15, 2008 at 9:45 am #

    Please can people stop sayin we hav a chance. Because we will hav a good result or the ova teams will drop points, we get our hopes up, and then we do crap again and then get disheartened, We are out of the title race so can everyone bear that in mind so we dont get too upset when we lose/draw again.

  96. MoMONEY
    December 15, 2008 at 9:55 am #

    Im only saying we have a chance if we make some big signings because the way we are playing I agree with you… Just saying it isnt as inconceivable as many people are making it out to be…

  97. Spanish Fry
    December 15, 2008 at 10:07 am #

    Agreed.

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